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Archive for the ‘ES 335’ Category

Blondes Gone Wild

Thursday, February 7th, 2019

I’ve always said, surround yourself with blondes and life will be good. If it’s already good, it will be better. These beauties cost as much as your first house cost and while your house has a back door, you can’t play “Back Door Man” on it.

OK, now that I have your attention, the blondes I’m talking about are not the ones you were thinking about (or are they?). I keep a pretty close watch on the 335 market and, since I have a good sized piece of it, I have to reflect real world prices and trends. Over all, the 335 market has been really strong for anything from 59 but 58’s and 60’s have been pretty flat this year. Unless, of course, they happen to be the model designated as the TDN. Yep, the blondes. The ones that drop your jaw when you see them and drop it even further when you see the prices.

The big problem is that there are so few of them. They only shipped 211 335 blondes in 58, 59 and 60. Only 50 345’s in 59 and 60. There are a couple of known block necks-one from 63 and another (a lefty) from 64 but that’s all I know of until 68 when a few more show up. They have always commanded a premium-the price guides always suggested they are worth double what the typical sunburst of the same year sells for. Well, that ship has sailed. When I last looked, there were only five on the market. A stop tail 59 in New York at $130,000-now gone and a stop tail 60 in LA at $100,000. The rest are Bigsby’s and range in price from $40K (cracked headstock ’60 and other issues-a consignment that I have) to a Bigsby 60 in Nashville that just moved that was listed for $50K to a Bigsby 60 in Chi with 345 inlays for $77,500. It’s clear to me that all the “rules” are out the window. A Bigsby used to be a 15-25% discount. Now it’s closer to 40% on a blonde 335. I know of two blondes that have sold well in excess of $100K recently on the private market – both 59’s, both stop tail, both collector grade. With a good sunburst 59 in the $40K range and an exceptional one at maybe $45K, the “double the sunburst” rule is out as well.

I knew the market was going to get really thin. Every big collector I know has at least one blonde 335 and with only 71 59’s ever shipped (and a lot of them Bigsby’s), it was only a matter of a very short time that they would all be spoken for. Collectors sell off guitars now and then, so the market will still be somewhat active but I don’t expect to see more than one or two stop tails a year and maybe 3 or 4 Bigsby’s. When you consider the number of bursts out there (I know-it isn’t apples and apples), you wonder how high the blonde market can go. The burst market (with, what 1600 or so examples shipped?) is pretty healthy. Imagine if there were only one eighth as many made. When folks talk about the most collectible electric guitars on the planet, the five that come up most often are the ‘burst, the gold top, the Explorer, the blackguard Tele and the blonde 335. I’d throw in the Flying V as well. The rarest is the Explorer and next is the blonde 335. There are so few Explorers (32 made?) and Flying V’s (100 or so) that it’s almost impossible to put a value on them. I keep hearing $750K for a well documented no issue 58 Explorer. You all know where ‘bursts are these days. It seems to me that a blonde stop tail 335 has a lot of room for appreciation. A 60 can still be had for well under $100K. A 58 will probably run you $100K for a bound one and a 59 has passed the $125K mark. I think they have plenty of room to appreciate. After all who doesn’t appreciate a blonde?

By request-the only 63 blonde I know of. There a lefty blonde 64 owned by a gentleman who lives 35 miles from me. How weird is that?

 

Internet Guitar Police

Sunday, January 13th, 2019

I actually bought this one-advertised as a 64 or 65 ES-355. It turned out to have been re-necked in 69 or 70. Probably should have kept it anyway. It’s still a pretty cool guitar but I paid for one that was all original and this one wasn’t.

I spend a pretty fair amount of my time looking for the next guitar I’m going to buy (and sell). I search the obvious places like Reverb and Gbase and Ebay and Craigslist and I find lots of nice guitars-more often than not overpriced but some very nice guitars. I make offers, I ask questions, I do my homework in the hope that what I’m buying is actually what I’m getting. Sometimes, it can be pretty tricky like when Grandma is selling her long deceased husband’s guitar and has no idea what it is or when it was made. I try to be of assistance and I can almost always tell most of what I need to know from a few photos. But it’s always a crapshoot. I can’t really ask Grandma to break out the screwdrivers and check the PAF stickers for me or get me pot codes. So, you take your chances and try to minimize the risk any way you can. But I’m at a big advantage when it comes to 335’s and the like. I know what every year looks like pretty much at a glance. I can tell a real PAF from a fake at twenty paces and usually a repro tailpiece or bridge without having to turn it over. But what can you do if you haven’t seen enough 335’s to make an informed decision? Well, you can always ask me and, better yet,  you can get a return commitment so if something isn’t right, you can return it. But Grandma just wants to get paid and be done with it. I would never ask a seller for a return policy if it’s a non player selling a guitar he or she knows nothing about. But, every once in a while, I do something else and I’m always really hesitant to do it and I don’t do it that often. Sounds ominous, right? On occasion and not very often and only when the crime is so egregious, I can’t stand it…I am the internet guitar police. I admit it. Guilty with an explanation.

OK, so what does that mean? It means I see a guitar that’s listed as something it clearly isn’t and I feel compelled (that’s right compelled) to call out the seller and set him straight. Arrogant? I try not to be. Know it all? Well, you’re reading my stuff so I know more than you do (until you’ve read it all and then you can take over for me). It always feels like a really obnoxious thing to do but if I save some poor buyer from paying the price of a 62 for a 66 or buying a Chinese fake that’s breathlessly listed as “Gibson ES-345 Mono / Stop Tail 1967 Natural RARE!, then I think I’ve done some measurable good. The reason I decided to establish this blog in the first place was because so many listings were wrong about the year of the 335 they were selling. There are some very legitimate reasons for getting it wrong. They used the same serial numbers over and over from 65 to 69, sometimes as many as four times. And, even to the trained eye, a 65 doesn’t look all that different from a 67. I can point out about a dozen differences but they aren’t obvious to anyone who hasn’t studied them. So, I understand the difficulty and I generally don’t write to you to tell you that you have the year wrong, especially when the values aren’t all that different (like between a 66 and a 68). But if you tell me the PAFs on your Grandaddy’s 58 are original and I can see they are fakes, somebody is going to get hurt.

I’ve been called all kinds of names. “Dot neck snob” is a recent one. “Douchebag asshole” is another. “Know it all scumbag” and the like. On the other hand, I get as many as twenty emails a week asking me if the 335 being considered by you and not being sold by me is everything the seller says it is and is it a good deal? I answer every one of them. I want folks to get what they pay for. My offering up free advice is good business. Being nice and helpful is good business. Making sure a buyer has a good first experience with a 335 can often mean that same buyer will be coming to me later when it’s time to spend some very serious money on their next 335 (or the one after that). Happens all the time and I’m grateful for it. The other side of that is when I have to tell a 335 owner that the 62 he bought for $20,000 has fake PAFs and a repro tailpiece. “But the dealer told me it was 100% original…” or “but the seller said he bought it new and it was never worked on…” People forget. People lie. People get burned by the last seller and simply perpetuate the lies.

So there it is. I am the internet guitar police. Or I should say The Internet Guitar Police. Or at least for 335’s, 345’s and 355’s. I’ve mentioned before that around 90% of the guitars I get have an undisclosed issue that can’t be seen in photos. It’s usually something pretty minor and it’s usually not out of dishonesty-it’s out of a lack knowledge and of good information. That’s why I’m here. To help. Take down my badge number and know this… I’m watching.

This is the guitar that started me writing this blog. It was represented as a red 59. It had a cut center block (started in 61) and a few other oddities that caused me to go on my (now 8 year) crusade against misrepresented ES models.

Year Ender 2018 Part 1 335’s.

Friday, January 4th, 2019

The blondes were the big winners in 2018 rising double digits year over year from 2017 to 2018. These are all 59 and 60. OK, the one in front is a 345. 

Every year, I examine the past 12 months of sales and try to predict the future a little in the 335 market. Well, it seems that we’ve survived into 2019 and it’s time to assess 2018. From a non guitar viewpoint, it was a most unusual (strange, bizarre, scary) year. From the vintage vista, it was a little strange too.

The year started off in fine fashion-everything was selling and the prices on most models (335, 345, 355) were continuing to climb slowly. Of course, the overly optimistic sellers were still asking stupid money for their guitars (and that includes a lot of dealers) but the realistic sale prices were solid and improving. Then, when the Summer rolled around, the market simply died. It was slow from July until the end of October for most dealers. Part of it was simply the market getting ahead of itself-you know, the old standoff where the sellers ask too much and the buyers won’t pay it. I say that because my sales were fairly good until October (probably because my prices are generally lower than the cockeyed optimists). Another element may have been the political culture that has marked the USA since we elected the “stable genius” our president. Further explanation will not be offered. I’ll just say that people who are scared don’t buy guitars at the same rate as they do when the aren’t. October was really slow as was November but it picked up before Christmas and looks good going forward. We’ll see soon if that’s the case.

Dot necks were strong in 2017 and continued their strength in 2018 as long as it was a 59. 58’s, 60’s and 61’s still sold well but showed little, if any increase over the course of 2018. 59’s, if fairly priced sell really well and continued to climb in value, especially for no issue collector grade examples. Player grade 59’s also sold really well. That said, there are plenty of sellers and dealers who are creeping toward the $50K mark for a sunburst 59. There’s your market standoff. They simply aren’t there, at least not yet. Block necks had a great year after being a bit sluggish in the past few years. Especially red ones. In 2017, I found the $20K range to be the top for a stop tail 62-64 but this year that barrier has fallen and the best PAF examples are edging toward $25K but aren’t there yet. More like $22K.  Bigsbys did well with clean examples pushing to $15K and beyond.

I’ve noticed something this year that wasn’t so obvious in previous years. Folks are beginning to avoid guitars with the most common issues and spending a little extra to get all original examples. Most folks on a limited budget seemed to prefer no issue guitars with player wear over cleaner guitars with issues like changed tuners or extra holes. In 2018, a 335 with heavy wear was an easier sell than a 9/10 335 with Grovers (even if they were removed and correct Klusons were installed). More buyers are looking for guitars with original frets which, frankly, I don’t get-a good re-fret is often better than the original frets and playability and tone to me is still king. Guitars with holes from a changed tailpiece are getting pretty hefty discounts lately. I used to call them the $1000 holes because each one knocks about a grand off the price on a high end example. It’s still around $1000 per hole unless they are in the top-then its more. 335’s with stable headstock repairs are strong-that 40% discount is shrinking for good examples. Refinished 335’s are always a tough sell but if done well, can fetch 70% of the price if an original finish although 50-60% is more likely.

I think my big surprise this year was the blondes. There weren’t a lot to be found in 2018 and the prices of the best examples proved that there is still plenty of room for growth. I sold a very clean 59 (double white PAFs) for well into 6 figures and a near mint 60 (zebras) close behind it. With a total output of only 211 blonde 58-60 335’s, it appears that the collectors have most of them ‘cuz there ain’t many showing up on the market . Uncirculated blonde 58 and 59’s are all but gone, it seems. This was made more striking by the fact that the 59 stop tail I sold recently was gone in a few days. The 60 sold a week after I posted it. I don’t expect you will find a blonde stop tail 59 again for under $100K unless the market turns downward. The fact that a blonde 59 is still “only” half the price of a decent burst seems counter intuitive to me. I know which one I’d rather play.

After a sluggish 2016-2017, block necks, specifically red, PAF equipped stop tail 62’s were very strong and very popular. I sold a load of them this year.

The Death of Vintage

Friday, November 30th, 2018

This 58 was bought by a 24 year old. Who says millennials don’t buy vintage?

Got your attention now, don’t I? OK, nobody is dying but the conventional wisdom has been that the vintage market will die as soon as the baby boomers (born 1946-1964) stop buying guitars. Where did this so called conventional wisdom come from? Well, not from me, that’s for sure. It’s most likely the result of simple logic. Most of the folks buying guitars from the 50’s and 60’s are folks who coveted those guitars as teenagers. It’s the same logic that the vintage automobile market  clung to until it simply didn’t pan out that way. There is some truth to the logic but it isn’t the big picture.

I’ve been buying and selling vintage guitars for about twenty years now. I started back in the mid 90’s, when the internet and, specifically, Ebay, opened up a worldwide market . It was a hobby until around 2006 when I started getting serious and my main source of income since 2010. From the mid 90’s until now, it is absolutely true that my biggest and most frequent customers have been between the ages of 50 and 65. Interestingly, the age of the clientele stayed about the same between then and now. Of course, if you were 50 in 1995, you are now at the top end of that range and if you were 65, you are probably not buying guitars any more (or anything else for that matter). I believe those who subscribe to the conventional wisdom about the vintage market have their data correct but they have misinterpreted it. I believe it has more to do with disposable income than it has to do with what guitars you grew up wanting. At around age 50-55 a lot of things in your life can change. Your mortgage may be paid off, your kids are out of the house and you may have downsized, college expenses are finished and your income is higher than its ever been. It doesn’t take an economist to figure this out-you simply have more money to spend.

But it doesn’t end there. The belief that the generation behind the baby boomers won’t be interested in guitars from the 50’s and 60’s is faulty. Guitars from the 50’s and 60’s (and some 30’s and 40’s) are better instruments than most of them being made now. There is no doubt that there are some extremely good guitars being made today-especially from boutique builders. But the market still loves the classics and that’s what those conventional thinkers have missed. Disagree? here are some hard facts.

I sell around 100 guitars a year. I keep track of the demographics of who is buying what. The big surprise this year was that nearly half of the high end vintage guitars sold by me were bought by folks under the age of 50. That still means lots of 50 and 60 somethings are buying guitars but, as they say in the commercials, wait..there’s more. It’s a little nitpicky but i sold a lot of guitars to buyers in the range of 50-55. Now, I don’t ask everybody how old they are when they buy something but I get a pretty good sense of it from the conversations. Note that a 50 year old in 2018 is not a baby boomer. I sold six vintage guitars in November. Only one buyer was over 60. One was 24. Two were in their 40’s and two were in there 50’s. The demographics are very similar for the entire year. Last year was a bit different-more boomers. Same with the year before. So, is 2018 a fluke or a sustainable change in the market place? Stay tuned. I’m betting on the latter.

This stunning 59 didn’t go to a millennial but it didn’t go to a baby boomer either.

Upside Down

Monday, October 15th, 2018

The thinline line. We could include the 330, the 225, the 125 but those are full hollow. These are the models with the center block semi hollow configuration. The 355 is a rare stop tail the 335 and the 345 are the more common stop tail sunbursts. All are 59’s. If we pretend, for the moment, that the 355 is the typical Bigsby version, then how far apart are the prices?

Gibson’s semi hollow body line of electric guitars was introduced to the public in the Spring of 1958 with the release of the ES-335T. The ES stood for electric Spanish (as opposed to EH which was electric Hawaiian) and the T stood for thin line. It was a revolutionary body design but a pretty basic guitar: Plywood body, single ply bindings on the body, no binding on the neck, dot markers and those newfangled hum bucker pickups. It had more in common with the low line ES-225 than it did with the high line ES-5. It seems to have slotted into the lineup as something of a workingman’s guitar. A no frills player that would check all the boxes for both the amateur and the starving artist. The guys with the recording contracts would likely choose something a little more upscale with a bit more flash.

The head of Gibson at the time was Ted McCarty. He is credited with the design of the 335 as well as a number of other innovations. He also played a major role in the development of the tune-o-matic bridge and the humbucking pickup. He’s also the man behind the Explorer and the Flying V. Important guy. The 335 was a success right out of the gate and by the end of 1958, Gibson added an upscale version called the ES-355 to appeal to the professional player and the high end market. The 355 was essentially the same as a 335 with some fancy bindings, real mother of pearl inlays in an ebony board, fancy headstock and gold plated hardware. It also was priced at nearly double the cost of a 335. I find it surprising that anybody spent the extra bucks for what is basically bling but the 355 was pretty successful on its own.

Shortly after the introduction of the ES-355, Gibson added stereo to the 355 as well as the notch filter called a Varitone to the circuit. Now, at least the 355 was set apart from its downscale brother but Gibson saw an opportunity to grab a bit more of the market by incorporating the stereo/Varitone element into the 335 without all that expensive ornamentation. Think of it as first class, second class and third class. The 345, introduced in the Spring of 1959 was intended to fill a gap between the well heeled buyers of the stereo 355 and the no frills buyers of the 335. It would have the stereo circuit and Varitone, a mid level binding treatment, gold hardware and fancier inlays (but still plastic). It was priced closer to the 335 than the 355 but it completed the line of semi hollow body electrics and, like its brethren, was a success.

Fast forward 50 years or so and, strangely, the market for vintage ES models is “upside down.” That is, the third class ES-335 is worth as much as twice as much as the high line 355 stereo which initially cost nearly twice as much. The 335 is also more desirable (and therefore more valuable) than a 345 or a 355. There has been plenty of debate as to why this is the case. The general consensus is that folks appreciate the simplicity of the 335 design. There is some validity to that. The fancy Fender Jaguar is less popular than the simpler Stratocaster and the even simpler Telecaster. Similarly, the simple J-45 is more popular than the fancy J-200. The stereo circuitry of the 345 and the stereo 355 has long since been considered obsolete and the Varitone is largely and, somewhat undeservedly, reviled by lots of folks. Let’s leave it that the mono no Varitone 335 is more coveted than the stereo models all of which have the Varitone.

It is noteworthy that the blonde versions of all three models, custom colors and to an extent, the rare red versions of the 335 and 345 from 1959 don’t play by the same rules. A blonde 355 is about as rare as it gets.

But there a fly in the ointment of this logic and that is the mono ES-355. It is the same guitar as a 335 with the fancy bindings, inlays and gold hardware. It is notable that nearly all 355’s came with a vibrato (or tremolo if you prefer) tailpiece; Bigsby, sideways or Maestro. OK, let’s figure the vibrato into the mix and compare a mono 355 to a Bigsby 335. A 59 mono 355 is perhaps a $22,000 guitar today. A 59 Bigsby 335 is around $30,000. Big difference. So, it makes sense that the simplicity element is a factor. But let’s throw another curveball, shall we? There are a very small number of stop tail 355 monos. All were special orders and my latest count is that there are perhaps 8 of them from 58-64 and another 8 stereo stop tails. Maybe more, probably not less. SO, whaddya think…is a mono 59 stop tail 355 worth more than a sunburst 59 stop tail 335? There are hundreds of stop tail 59 335’s and maybe four or five stop tail 59 mono 355’s. Start the final Jeopardy theme music here.

OK, times up. The 355 is worth more than the 335. For once, rarity wins. A 59 335 is one of top collectible vintage guitars-certainly in the top five of everyone’s list. Expect to pay around $40K for a no issue one. But a mono stop tail 59 ES-355 will cost you another $8-$10,000. I know-I’ve sold three of them. But the stop tail mono 59 ES-355 is a special case. The ES market is still upside down and will likely stay that way. The good news is that you can simply convert your 345 or stereo 355 to mono and save yourself tens of thousands of dollars. A stop tail 59 345 will cost you $20K maybe a little more for an early “first rack”. A 59 335 will cost you $40K. For the record, my main player (at the moment) is a 59 ES-345 converted to mono.

A couple of super rare stop tail 355’s. One mono. One stereo.

 

Science Project

Wednesday, September 26th, 2018

Basket case EB-2. The mad scientist in me says that this can be something pretty cool. Or two somethings.

When I was in seventh grade (there were dinosaurs then), my science project was to build a solid body guitar. The science part of it was how you didn’t need a resonant body to generate musical tones; you only needed strings and a pickup. I kind of cheated in that I didn’t make the neck (I took it from a junk Teisco) and I didn’t wind the pickup (I bought a used DeArmond) but, hey, I was 12 years old. I made the body in shop class (remember shop class?-for boys only-girls took home ec). It was a slab of poplar that I shaped into a Vox Phantom (easier than cutting out a Stratocaster). The guitar worked surprisingly well and I got an “A” on the project. Fast forward 55 years and I’m still doing projects. Here’s the latest.

About 18 months ago, I bought a blonde Gibson EB-2 bass that had completely fallen apart. The top was no longer connected to the sides and the back was off as well. The neck was still glued to the center block but the center block was completely detached from the body. The easy project would have been to put the EB-2 back together and replace the missing parts. But that’s too easy. I had a better idea. I have the great advantage of having a good relationship with the best 335 builder there is. So, I asked Ken McKay if he could take the back of the EB-2 and turn it into the front of a 335. I figured we would use the sides for my project 335 and Ken would make a new back. I wanted to use the EB2 center block but Ken thought it made more sense to make a new one and to use the original block and EB-2 neck to make an EB-2. We had the top already-he would just need to make a new back and sides. Two for the price of one. Ken would have to make a new neck for the 335 which would be made to my personal specs (kind of a 64 at the first fret but a 59 at the 12th). Let me back up a little.

I am a big believer in old wood. Even old plywood. You can’t really call plywood a tone wood but the age of the wood seems to make a difference in the tone of the guitar. I’ve played a few hundred vintage 335’s and at least 50 new ones. The new ones play great and sound good too but they don’t have the ability to vibrate and project like the old ones. I’ve put PAFs in a newer guitar and I’ve loaded up a newer 335 with all vintage parts but it still lacks the liveliness that the old guitars seem to have. I think it has to do with moisture content but I’m not a wood expert, so I’m shooting from the hip here. The old ones are more resonant, they have better sustain and they seem to generate more harmonics. So, my project should sound pretty good. The wood that Ken used to make the neck and center block for the 335 was carefully chosen and properly dried. The plywood for the back was sourced from the same folks who used to supply Gibson back in the Kalamazoo days. The fingerboard is from a big old slab of Brazilian which I sourced back in the 90’s. I sent it to Ken and I think we got around 15 fingerboards out of it.

So, a little over half of the project 335 is old wood. The project EB-2 is probably around half old wood. The EB-2 is still missing some parts so it isn’t complete yet but the 335 is done. All of the parts are vintage except for the pickups which are Wizz Clones. I may drop a set of PAFs into it if I get ambitious. The guitar feels exactly right which isn’t surprising. Ken’s new 335 builds feel like the real thing so there is no reason why this one wouldn’t. But feel is one thing. Tone is quite another.

Playing the 335 unplugged tells me a lot. It is resonant and loud. You can feel the vibration in a way you can’t in a new Gibson-they simply don’t respond like that-at least not yet. Maybe in another 50 years, they will do that. Plugged in, it sounds like a vintage 335 which proves to me that modern boutique PAFs have come a very long way. Will it sound better with a good set of PAFs? Probably. But the scientific conclusion here is that there is no substitute for old wood. They’ve been “roasting” wood lately in an attempt to duplicate the resonance of old wood and, apparently, the results are pretty good. I’m pretty sure nobody is doing it with plywood however. So, I’m sticking with old wood. The next question is what is this thing worth? It sure looks authentic (except the back looks too new but we can fix that by playing it). It plays great and sounds great but it’s only around 55% vintage. So, let’s see…a blonde 59 335 is worth around $95K and 95 times .55 is, uh, carry the two and move the decimal point…$35,750. OK, I’m not going to get $35K for it but I’ll be happy to listen to offers. The EB-2 needs a bridge-the ones from 66 onward won’t fit and nobody seems to make a repro that will fit a 59.

The 335 came out great. The jury is still out on the EB-2 since I don’t have all the parts yet but they both look like real 59’s because you see the top and the tops are the real deal. The top and sides of the 335 is the back and sides of the original EB-2. The top, center block and neck of the EB-2 are still the original. Brazilian boards. Two blondes for cheap (sort of)

Last of the Really Good Ones

Wednesday, August 29th, 2018

68 saw the introduction of the less than wildly popular walnut finish. Just ‘cuz George played a brown guitar doesn’t make it a good marketing tool.

We covered 66 and 67, so let’s look at 68. Why am I calling 68 the last of the good ones? Weren’t 69’s pre Norlin and pretty much the same as a 68? Yes, the earliest ones are but most of them aren’t, so the last good full year for the 335 is 1968. There were a lot of changes in 69 and none of them were good. But 68 saw some changes as well and some weirdness too.

I’m really not sure why Gibson didn’t leave well enough alone sometimes. They must never had heard the old “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”, axiom. Interestingly, some of the changes in 68 were improvements-most, however, were not. The cutaways got more rounded again-not exactly Mickey Mouse ears but still, a good step towards that. There were some other, less obvious changes as well. The f-holes got bigger and they look a little strange to my eye. They also used two different logos over the course of the year. The usual logo-same a 67 and the one they call a “pantograph” logo which has a more streamlined look and is actually pretty rare but you do see them on occasion. 68 saw the addition of the “boob” logo (I have to stop calling it that-someone is going to complain, I just know it) to the guard. Also, a pretty rare sight but always, it seems, on a 68.

A new color was introduced called “walnut”. I’m guessing they were responding to the massive sales of the walnut colored Gretsch Country Gentleman but apparently didn’t realize that the reason Gretsch sold so many wasn’t because it was brown but because George played one. I don’t know exactly how well the walnut 335’s sold but I can tell you this: You can’t give ’em away now. It is, by some margin, the hardest 335 to sell. Perfectly good guitar but I don’t want them and, unless you plan to keep it forever, you don’t want them. There was also “sparkling burgundy” which was Gibson’s version of candy apple red. It didn’t look bad when it was new but it fades to a pretty awful pinkish copper color. 68 was big year for it though.

Some things were transitioned in. Surprisingly, a lot of 68’s still have pre T-tops. Everybody thinks t-tops were the norm from 65 on but they absolutely were not. You can still find pre T’s as late as 69 but not very often. But a 68 with pre t-tops is pretty typical. Of course, all the nickel parts were gone by 68. You might find a nickel pickguard bracket on a 68 but most were chrome. The tuners didn’t change-still Kluson double line double ring but the “Gibson Deluxe” version seems to have started showing up in late 68 or maybe early 69. It was virtually the same tuner with a different name, so it isn’t a big deal either way. The knobs, guard and truss cover were the same as 67.

I do have to point out a pet peeve of mine when it comes to 68’s. The guitarhq website which is incredibly detailed and informative (and I learned a whole lot from) still says that Gibson went back to the 1 11/16″ nut in 68. They increased the profile to a chunkier depth but the nut width, alas, stayed at 1 9/16″. I still get emails from readers who insist they want a 68 because of the nut width and I have to explain that they will be looking for a wide nut 68 for a very long time because there simply aren’t any. OK, you can buy a 68 Johnny Smith and it will have a wide nut but not a 335, 345 or 355.

At the end of the day, a 68 is a really well made, excellent sounding guitar. Yes, Gibson was still cranking them out much faster than in earlier years but the build quality was still good and the tone was as well. Pre T tops and t-tops are very decent sounding pickups. You might find them a little bright and a little thin compared to a PAF or early patent but they really can be good (and consistent). The hardest thing for me to deal with is the narrow nut and, to be honest, that’s the only reason I don’t buy them. I do take them in trade as long as they aren’t walnut.

I should stop calling this the “boob” logo and come up with another name although that’s what it looks like, so excuuuuse me. This is a 335 -12 string which was still a pretty popular seller in 68.

 

1967. More changes. More Guitars

Monday, August 13th, 2018

Most 67’s look pretty much like a 66 except for the knobs and the pickguard. This is a 335 12 string in the very unpopular sparkling burgundy. But some have different ears. See below

The great guitar boom started slowly in 64 but, arguably, peaked in 67. You can thank the British Invasion (and all that followed) for that. By 67, it seemed that most teenage boys wanted to be a guitar player (me included, I was 15 in 67). That meant a lot of guitar sales. And 335’s were only the tip of the iceberg as they were generally too expensive for teenaged players. 335/345/355’s went from sales of around 2000 in 1964 to 3300 in 1966 to 8300 in 1967. But when you add in the number of Melody Makers, SG’s, Firebirds and acoustics (folk rock was huge by then), keeping up with the demand must have been more than daunting for the folks at Gibson. I don’t have accurate totals for all of the models but if 335’s are any indication, the increases were massive. Gibson probably added workers and shifts but they also had to work faster and more efficiently and that usually means a few things…like diminished quality, higher prices and changes.

The good news is that the quality, while perhaps diminished somewhat is still very good. I don’t see nearly as many 67’s as I do early 335’s but those I have seen show overall good work. The glue is a little sloppier on the inside, the fit and finish can be inconsistent but the guitars still play well and sound good. I can’t speak for the lower line models like the Melody Maker because I rarely see them. I can tell you the high end stuff (L-5 CES, Johnny Smith et al) was still built to a very high standard judging from the few I’ve played. So, what changed in 67 on the 335?

The nut width was still the very slim 1 9/16″ but the depth seems to have increased again after having gotten extremely thin in 66. Most 67’s I’ve played are pretty deep at the first fret and show a fair amount of increase to the 12th. More like a 64 with a narrow nut. While the conventional wisdom says 67’s had t-top pickups, I find that to be misleading. There are certainly 67’s with t-tops but most of the ones I’ve inspected have pre T top patents with the poly coated windings. Fingerboards were all Indian rosewood by 67 although I’m sure a few pieces of Brazilian are out there. The knobs went from reflectors to “witch hats” in late 66 and the pickguard bevel went from wide to narrow at around the same time. The hardware was chrome by 67 except for the occasional pickguard bracket (they must have had a lot of nickel ones on hand). The tuners never went to chrome. The cutaway shape was changed a bit as well and I have a theory about that. Some of the 67’s look exactly like a 64-66…pointy ears as you would expect. But some of them (especially Trinis) have these short stubby ears some call “fox ears”. I’ll wager a guess that they needed additional forms to keep up with the demand and made some new ones at some point in 67. It’s subtle but not that subtle. It’s interesting that the shape would change again in 68. The important point here is that most of the changes were cosmetic and perhaps reflected decreased costs-Indian rosewood was cheaper and the narrow bevel guard probably saved some pennies.

How does a 67 sound in relation to, say, a 64? Not so far off,  in my opinion. The poly wound pre T tops can be a little bright compared to the enamel coat wound 64 patents. The trapeze tailpiece can affect sustain a bit (but not as much as you think). They are also very consistent probably because the winders (so I’m told) had a stop function when they hit 5000 turns or so. That doesn’t eliminate all variation but it would eliminate some of it. In 64 and earlier, the workers doing the winding just filled the bobbins by eye. You can argue with me that a Brazilian board sounds better than an Indian board but I’ll tell you that you are delusional. A Brazilian might look better but I’m not buying the tone argument.

If I put a 67 up against a brand new high end Memphis built 335, I’ll still take the 67 for tone. Call it old wood, call it mojo or call it snobbery. The new one will probably be a little easier to play with the wider nut and maybe look a little better in the fit and finish but I think the 67 is going to smoke it when it comes to your ears. Finally, a 67 can be had for as little as $3500 if you’re lucky. I see them priced as high as $8000 or even a little more but I think the sellers are dreaming as they so often do. Check the neck for twists or back bow before you buy. 67’s are no more likely to have neck problems than any other year but it’s something you should check on any guitar new or vintage.

OK, its a Trini but lots of 335’s have the same shape “ears”. Compare these to the 67 at the top of this post. These are shorter, pointier and at a wider angle from the neck. Some call them “fox” ears. These are only found in 67-maybe very late 66 and very early 68 but, for the most part, it’s a 67 thing.

 

 

Mid Sixties. Good Guitars. Small Necks.

Monday, July 30th, 2018

If you can live with the narrow nut and the trap tailpiece, a 66 is a pretty good choice. Vintage pedigree without the sticker shock.

I must come off as a little bit of a vintage snob. I pay a lot of attention to the ES line from 58 to 65 but I pretty much ignore the rest of the sixties and that really isn’t fair. Most vintage aficionados draw a line somewhere and I drew mine at the moment they switched from wide nuts to narrow nuts (insert joke here). The guitar boom that occurred during the mid 60’s caused some major changes in the guitar industry. In 1959, they sold around 1500 guitars from the ES thin line series. That would include 335’s, 345’s and 355’s. By 1967, that number was closer to 10,000. That huge increase must have caused all kinds of headaches with the corporate suits. You can thank John, Paul, George and Ringo for a lot of that. I was 11 when I first heard The Beatles and I wanted to be a rock star (along with a zillion other kids my age). I couldn’t afford a 335 but that didn’t stop me. I never got there but had a lot of fun trying for about ten years. So, let’s take a look at the mid 60’s in the next few posts and see where the changes occurred and why these years don’t command the big bucks and maybe why they should. And we’ll blow away a myth or two along the way.

I’ve owned a bunch of 66’s, so that’s the year we’ll start with. If I had to point out the shortcomings of 66’s, it would be a pretty short list. Narrow nut. End of list. The nut went from 1 11/16″ in early 65 to 1 5/8″ to 1 9/16″ by the early Summer of 65. That’s pretty narrow even for a guy with small hands like me. I find that I’m clumsy and get in my own way on the limited real estate of the lower frets. I simply can’t play them very well. But beyond that, 66’s are not all that different from the well regarded 64’s. They went to the trapeze but (myth buster #1) I don’t find that it makes all that much difference in tone and sustain. You’d think it would but I’ve played lots of 66’s with great sustain and tone. Well, what about the pickups? You can’t really compare a t-top to a PAF can you? Here’s myth buster #2-they didn’t use t-tops in 66-at least not in any of the 66’s I’ve had or inspected. The pickups are pre t-tops which are, essentially, PAFs with poly coated windings. They are different than PAFs and early patents but they are very good pickups. I find them a little brighter and a little more tame than a PAF but still a really good sounding pickup. However, if you’re buying a 345 or 355, you still have a shot at a set of early patents which are the same as a late PAF. Early patents are not common on gold hardware guitars by 66 but they are out there.

The quality of mid 60’s ES models suffered during the mid 60’s almost certainly because of the wildly increased sales volume. I’m sure the pressure to crank out more guitars in less time was intense and when that happens, quality is the loser. But 66’s are generally good as far as fit and finish are concerned. To me, a 66 is very close to a “Golden Era” 335 for less than half the price. I had a 66 ES-345 a few years ago that I would put up against any year except maybe an early 59. It was a monster guitar. The 66 still has a lot of the same components of the earlier ones. The nickel had changed to chrome on 335’s by late 65 but the 66 was the last year for the wide bevel guard, the reflector knobs and Brazilian rosewood fingerboards. I think that if Gibson had kept the wider nut and the beefier neck (66’s are pretty thin front to back-like a 61), the prices would be a lot higher. Just look at early 65’s. A big neck 65 is pretty close to a 66 except for the neck profile. And yet, the price of the 65 is 50% more on average. So, I consider the 66’s a bargain. You can pick up a ’66 345 for about the same price as a new high end 335. You can always take off the trapeze and do a stop tail conversion. I find that if its done right, it doesn’t diminish the value significantly, if at all. There are always buyers for stop tails (done right by somebody else). And, much as I like some of the newer 335’s, I’d still rather have a 66 even with that narrow nut.

This 66 345 was pretty unusual. Full Mickey Mouse ears and early patents made it look and sound like an earlier one. Keep your eyes open, there are some excellent mid 60’s guitars out there for less than you might pay for a new one.

Fix it or Disclose it

Saturday, June 30th, 2018

On of the most common parts that gets swapped out for a repro is the switch tip. It’s a $200 part these days and the repros have gotten pretty good. If it’s an amber one, look for a seam. If there is one, it ain’t the real deal. If there isn’t a seam, it could still be a repro. If it’s a white one, it should have a seam and usually a crack.

I have a pet peeve about the vintage guitar business and, frankly, it drives me a little nuts. Let me set the stage and give my peeve some context. Guitars get modified over decades. Parts get changed, finishes get touched up and redone, stuff wears out and so on. I get that. And I don’t expect individual sellers to know everything about the guitar they are selling. As a dealer, it’s my job to know what to look for and to make a fair assessment of the guitar I’m buying. Part of the reason my inventory is fairly narrow is because I don’t generally buy what I don’t know about. I learned that by getting burned on a few guitars that turned out to be something other than they were touted to be by the seller. Many sellers will make good on an undisclosed issue but many can’t be expected to do so (widows and children of the original owner, for example). But undisclosed issues from individual sellers isn’t the pet peeve. It’s the undisclosed issues from the dealers.

I should clarify. There are dealers and there are dealers. Most full time dealers are pretty good at accurately describing the guitars they sell and they have fair policies about returns-to a point. Many smaller dealers are just as good as the big boys. But there’s the scenario that drives me batshit. Player A buys an expensive vintage guitar from well regarded Dealer B. Player A gets 48 hours to accept or reject the guitar. He accepts the guitar because it’s a great player and everything looks right to his untrained eye and he is happy.  Unbeknownst to player A,  the neck PAF  was rewound and the back was oversprayed.  A year later, Player A trades the guitar (sight unseen) to me for a more expensive vintage guitar. “I know it’s correct because I bought it from Dealer B who has a great reputation.” That may be true but Dealer B never checked the pickups closely and didn’t notice the overspray-it sure looked right. And the 48 hour approval has long since run out.

Then I get the guitar in hand and I have to deliver the bad news that the guitar isn’t what it was touted to be. This has happened dozens of times now (and I’ve only been doing this full time for 8 years) and it’s pretty distressing to the seller and to me, especially when the dealer has been in business for decades. Sometimes, it’s a $200 switch tip (really common), sometimes it’s undisclosed touchups. More often, its rewound pickups and changed parts. It’s often really hard to tell a repro tailpiece or bridge from a photo. Overspray is common and also very hard to see in a photo-even a blacklight photo if the overspray is old enough. The worst case (and it came from a well established dealer) was a 56 Stratocaster that had a repro body and an very well disguised All Parts neck. The dealer refuses to make good on it even though we (me and the previous owner) can prove the body and neck are the same ones that the dealer sold. I’m not mentioning names…yet. That’s thousands of dollars down the toilet.

I’m not calling out specific dealers, I’m calling out all dealers including myself. It is your responsibility to know what you are selling and to go through it completely. A couple of years ago, I sold a mint 62 ES-335 to a gentleman in California who really knew his stuff. I went through it pretty thoroughly but I never removed the thumbwheels under the bridge. It turned out that the bridge had been moved back slightly leaving two small holes, not visible unless you remove the thumbwheels. The guitar came back and I learned an important lesson. Look at everything on every guitar you get. Fix it or disclose it. Is it too much of a pain to check the pots on a 335? Then don’t sell 335’s or disclose that you never checked them. If the pickups have been opened and re-sealed, then disclose it. That should tell the buyer that they may have been rewound. Want a better solution? Open them back up and check the windings. It’s time consuming and a lot of work but it’s your responsibility to know exactly what you’re selling.

Look at the solder. You can usually tell if the pickups have been opened. If they have been, and have been re-soldered, open them up again and check for a rewound pickup. Sometimes it’s not so easy to tell. Mostly, it is. Look for bent edges, flux around the solder or sloppy work. I’m sure this one was opened.