The Gibson ES-335

No turkeys allowed.

I’m sure we all have plenty to be thankful for this year and , hopefully, every year. Here at es-335.org, I rarely diverge from the path of educating, entertaining and simply gabbing about my favorite guitars. Yes, I’ve talked about my wife and son-both of whom I’m most thankful for. I’ve mentioned my Mom and my Dad-both of whom I’m thankful to have had in my life for so long.  I’m thankful that I actually have 125,000 people who read what I write. I’m thankful that I can make a living selling guitars and have so much fun doing it. While I’m at it, I’m thankful for both Ted McCarty and Seth Lover for inventing the 335 and the PAF respectively. But I’m thankful for really little stuff too. Here’s a list:

I’m thankful for:

1958 unbound 335s with no cracks around the jack

1959 345s from the “first rack” with those humongous necks and short leg PAFs

1960 335/345/355s with watermelon red finishes

1961 335s with straight necks

1962 355s with Bigsbys rather than sideways trems

1963 335s with Mickey Mouse ears, PAFs and  big necks

1964 335’s. All of them but especially red stop tails.

1965 mono 355’s with wide necks

1966-67  335/345/355s with pre T-tops

1968 any ES that isn’t brown (walnut)

1969 any ES that has the long neck tenon

all the crappy 70’s ES guitars out there that I don’t own.  I’m also thankful for the good ones owned by others.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Oh, here’s another turkey. The 335-s. Like my Mom used to say, “if you don’t have something nice to say…”

This ’65 sold for around $8000 a while back. This is from the Spring of 65 with a big 64 sized neck (but the shallower 14 degree peg head angle). The hardware is chrome but it sure sounded a lot like a 64 and for a lot less money. The nickel hardware 65’s with the 17 degree peg head angle will go for a little more.

I get it. $14000 is a boatload of money for a guitar. The vast majority of players (as opposed to collectors) can’t really afford to spend that much. When I was a younger man, I could afford expensive guitars but didn’t buy them because there was always something else that needed buying (like a house, a car, a college education for my son, etc, etc, etc). I always had a few guitars but never anything that was worth more than a few thousand dollars. Then, of course, the vintage market went into bubble mode and all of a sudden, my old 64 was worth some big money. Now that the bubble has long since burst (or at least deflated a bit), the prices of some really nice guitars have become more affordable again. When you consider that a new Custom Shop ES-335 will cost you around $6000 (and be worth a lot less as soon as you walk out the door of the music store), then perhaps vintage has become a smart buy again. Let’s examine the vintage ES market for under $10,000. There are a lot of choices and they will sound every bit as good as the guitars that I described in part one of this post. They may have a few changed parts or a couple of holes that don’t belong there but these things don’t usually affect tone or playability. So, what’s good? If you don’t want a guitar with issues and you want the wide nut and big neck of a 59, then you should look at ES-335s from the first part of ’65 and ES-345s from late 63 through early 65. A no issue, bone stock big neck ’65 ES-335 will be identical to a 64 except for the tailpiece (trapeze except for a few very early 65’s that snuck through with stop tails) slightly different tuners (double line rather than single line Klusons) and probably a different truss rod cover (narrow bevel rather than wide). An all nickel hardware ’65 will cost you in the neighborhood of $8500-maybe less depending on condition. Don’t take the sellers word for it that the neck is a big one. The nut should measure 1 11/16″ and the depth at the first fret should be around .83″-.86″. The end point for the big necks is around serial number 340xxx. The latest one I’ve had has been 339738. There are thin necks with lower numbers, so pay attention. Want a stop tail and PAFs? It isn’t out of the question for less than $10,000. I sold a pretty nice ’60 ES-345 stop tail for $9000 recently. It had new tuners and a repro stop tail but it also had a zebra PAF in the bridge and a double black in the neck. It had a few extra holes by the end pin from a Bigsby B6 (the wrong one for a 345) but none in the top. It didn’t have a big neck but it was still a lot of guitar for not too much money. Another good example was a 63 ES-345 I had a few months ago. It had a nice big neck, patent number pickups, original Klusons and was originally a stop tail that had an added Bigsby. One of the pickups was missing its sticker but that was the only real issue. It sold for $7800. Right now ES-345’s except for 59’s and blondes are pretty soft and it’s a good time to grab one at a very fair price. There are still plenty of sellers who think a 60’s ES-345 is worth $15000 or more but they just aren’t selling. That’s why you see the same guitars week in and week out on Ebay. As vintage guitars approach the cost of new, they start looking awfully good. For my money, I’d pay $7800 for a 63 ES-345 with a few small issues long before I’ll pay $6000 to my local Guitar Center for a new Custom Shop ES-335. In part 3, I’ll talk about guitars with more and bigger issues that will drive the price even lower.

Pretty nice ’60 ES-345 for $9000. Watermelon red, zebra PAF (with the cover). I needed to find some missing parts for it (like a VT ring) but all of the parts are out there if you’re patient. The gold Varitone ring is a particularly tough part to find (but I found one before it shipped)

This is the 345 that sold on Ebay for $14500. This photo is from back when I had it. You can see the two nasty dings from the case lid falling on it (they were there when I got it, honest). Otherwise it was in great shape.

There is a post on the Les Paul Forum asking what the best value is for a vintage ES given a budget of $14,000. First off, let me tell what you can eliminate and then my choices will make more sense. You can forget about a dot neck unless you don’t mind lots of issues. You can also forget about a no issue stop tail 64 or earlier block necks unless you get really lucky. No issue stop tails start at around $15K but minor issues can drop the price below that $14K threshold. Issues like Grovers (or Grover holes) or maybe removed pickup covers can drop the price to $12K to $14K making these guitars a pretty good deal if you’re a player. If you’re buying to enjoy and as an investment, save your money. Issues guitars are not terribly good investments although they will generally hold their value. If you must have PAFs, your options are still pretty good. Recently, the ES-345 market has gotten pretty soft and they are a relative bargain right now.

The best $14000 guitar right now? Again, my opinion, but if I had had $14K to spend on any ES, I’d buy a 59 ES-345 stop tail. I love the early 335’s with their big necks, long magnet PAFs and shallow neck angles. But 58 and 59’s are way out of this range-even Bigsby models. But 345’s aren’t. This one sold on Ebay last week for around $14,500. I know this guitar-I bought it from Heritage (auction house) a couple of years ago and sold it for $12500. It was re-sold this year at Arlington and showed up on Ebay a week later . All the great stuff you hear about 59 ES-335’s applies to 59 ES-345s. Same construction, same neck profile, same everything except the hardware is gold, the inlays are different and it has a stereo Varitone circuit. Take it out if you don’t like it (flip one pickup magnet) and you have a $14000 ’59 stop tail ES. If you really really want an unmodded, no issue 335 rather than a 345 in that range, then a Bigsby/Custom Made late 63 or 64 is the winner. A 62 or early 63 would be in the same range (and might even have 2 PAFs) but the thinner neck might be an issue for some in this fat neck crazed market. If you don’t want a Bigsby, take it off and put on a stop. It won’t change the value-you can simply put the Bigsby and plate back on. Finally, if you don’t mind a Bigsby, like an ebony board and you’re good with a red guitar, an early PAF equipped mono ES-355 can be a killer choice in that range. Yeah, you see them for $20K or more but they rarely, if ever, sell for those numbers. I sold a 59 recently for $15K with a zebra and a double white. The neck wasn’t a big fat 59 profile-it was closer to a 60 (ES-355’s went to the thinner neck earlier than the rest of the line). A ’60 mono 355 can be had for even less if you’re patient. So, in order of my personal preference, it goes like this: ’59 stop tail ES-345, ’63-64 ES-335 Bigsby/Custom Made and ’59/60 mono ES-355. I’d take any one of them at that price and be a happy camper. On the other hand, there are great ES’s to be had for a lot less. Next, I’ll tell you what you can get for under $10K.

You can’t beat a 64. I’ve logged more hours playing a 64 335 than all other guitars combined. Unfortunately, $14K won’t get you a no issue stop tail but it’ll get you one like this with a big ol’ neck and no issues at all.

I sold this gorgeous 59 mono 355 with one white and one zebra for $15K earlier this year. Find one with black pickups and you should be under $14K.

A 79 with a factory stop, big wide neck and a natural finish. Why does it look sort of funny?

Norlin, in case you haven’t heard, was an Ecuadorean cement and beer conglomerate that bought Gibson from CMI in 1969. To most, the sale signaled the end of decent guitars coming out of Kalamazoo. In fact, the conventional wisdom goes, there would never have been a vintage market if the big makers kept making high grade instruments instead of putting profits before quality. I’m not even certain that they’re beer and cement was all that good either. But, as my readers tell me loudly and often, there are exceptions. I’ve never disagreed with that – I’ve touted the early 80’s Norlin 335’s “dot reissues” again and again but rarely had anything nice to say about the 70’s (and that goes beyond guitars). I had a 79 blonde ES-335 on my Gbase site as a consignment for a very long time but until recently I never had it in my hands for more than a minute or two. I sold it recently and was able to spend a few hours of quality time with it while I set it up prior to shipping. I also went through it pretty carefully to see all the terrible 70’s things that Norlin did to my favorite guitar. There are a lot of things for a purist not to like on a late 70’s Norlin 335. The body shape is very strange. It appears to be smaller and more pinched at the waist with thinner horns. It is ungainly looking but perfectly functional-it just doesn’t look like a “real” 335. Norlin made a lot of changes to simplify the construction process in order to raise profits. They shortened the center block and did away with the mahogany ends. They started using three piece necks with the dreaded volute and eventually switched to maple necks. I haven’t studied 70’s 335s with anywhere near the same level of detail as I have the 50’s and 60’s models but I saw a few things in this ’79 that struck me. First, it played and sounded excellent. Certainly on a par with any early 80’s Norlin dot neck. The build quality was as good as any I’ve seen but that may be because this guitar might have been a custom order. It was unusual for a 79 in that it had no coil tap, it had a factory stop tail and the center block went the distance from end to end and was very neatly glued in place. Even 50’s 335’s usually have pretty messy glue inside.  It had a big neck and a wide nut. The 70’s catalog says that the top ply of the top is birch and this sure looked like birch to me. Birch and maple are easy to confuse but this looked a lot like the wood used in most kitchen cabinets which is, in fact, birch. There were some things I didn’t like about it (but tone wasn’t one of them). I don’t like a Nashville bridge because they look wrong on a 335 but they do function just fine. It has horrible cheap tuners on it with metal buttons. It has a too large headstock. I never checked to see what pickups are on it but they sounded like t-tops. Given the price, the guitar was a deal for the eventual buyer. This 79 felt like a 60’s 335-except that it must have weighed close to 9 lbs. Weight is very often an issue in the 70’s, although I’m not certain why. So, while I tend to characterize 70’s 335’s as hit or miss with considerable emphasis on the latter, I really liked this one. So, there must be others and if the emails I get from all the readers who own them is any indication, there must be a lot more good ones than I realized. Who’da thunk?

Three piece maple neck, volute, crappy tuners and a birch plywood body. Most peculiar, Mama.

The sunburst Les Pauls get all the glory. All over the internet, it’s ‘burst this and ‘burst that and this one is worth $400,000 and this one over here has ultra deep 3D flame and will walk your dog for you. Well, we have our own ‘burst with it’s own distinctive character and beauty. The sunburst finishes done by Gibson on the early 335’s are quite lovely and are often very distinctive from year to year. A sunburst finish is a very individual thing. Each one is a result of the personal taste of the man wielding the spray gun. I don’t know how many different workers shot the sunburst finishes but there are some wonderful variations both in color and design. Most of us have seen the sunburst on the very early Gibson acoustics with their broad black outer band and a very small inner burst of yellow. Well, some early 335s were reminiscent of this but the more recognizable yellow to red to (almost) black evolved in the early days. I don’t know too much about the process but I can at least make some observations about the results. The red used in the first sunburst 335’s is, almost certainly, the same red they used for the Les Pauls and therein lies much of the variation we see in the sunburst. Until mid 60, the red they used was subject to fading and 335’s fade as much as Les Pauls. So, more often than not, an early 335 will show rather minimal red in the transitions. I’ve owned a number of 58 and 59’s and most showed very little red. That’s not to say there aren’t early 335’s out there that show vibrant reds. It all depends on how much sunlight the guitars were subjected to. A few months in the window of your local guitar shop will kill the reds almost completely whereas a 335 that was bought before it hit the window and was kept in its case for 50 plus years will show a vibrant and rich red. Compare the front to the back and see if there isn’t more red in the back. This type of variation is environmental and has little to do with the individuals who created the finishes. But, the broad range of sunburst patterns has everything to do with them. This ’58 is one of my all time favorites and shows a lot more black than most.

A most unusual sunburst on an early 58. Still fairly vibrant in the reds, too.

Most early sunbursts show a much thinner band of black and less red as well-again probably due to fading. This pair of 59 345’s shows the range.

These are both December ’59 345’s. Some are dark, some aren’t. This isn’t so much fade but the personal touch of the guy with the spray gun. Perhaps they paid attention to the figuring, shooting less of the darkest tones when the wood showed a more interesting grain. Or not.

By the time the early 60’s rolled around, sunburst 335’s had gotten a lot less popular. They made 521 of them in 59 but only 266 in 1962. But red had taken off going from a mere handful (I know of 6) in 59 to over 600 in 1962. Then the guitar boom hit and the numbers went through the roof. Sunburst 335’s hit a peak in 1967 at 2596 shipped but the red ones still outsold the burst with 3122 units shipped. The split in 345’s was somewhat different with the sunburst maintaining its popularity vs the red through most of the 60’s. The sunburst of the early 60’s block necks wasn’t terribly different from the dot necks that preceded them. The only real notable difference was a more pronounced brown (as opposed to what appears as black) particularly in the ears. The pattern was largely the same and the reds in the finish tended to last a lot longer.

This 62 shows a lot more brown around the edges and in the ears. The spray pattern is almost the “pear” pattern found more frequently after ’65

Notably, a change to the typical sunburst occurred sometime in the mid 60’s. The burst pattern became sort of “pear shaped” especially on the back. Here’s a ’65 “pear burst” and a 64 for comparison.  Of course, the “cherry burst” showed up in 65 as well but that’s another story.

This is a 65 “pear” burst. These were typical from 65 onward. There are, of course, variations as they were still sprayed by hand

The more typical sunburst-this is a 64.