The Gibson ES-335

I actually bought this one-advertised as a 64 or 65 ES-355. It turned out to have been re-necked in 69 or 70. Probably should have kept it anyway. It’s still a pretty cool guitar but I paid for one that was all original and this one wasn’t.

I spend a pretty fair amount of my time looking for the next guitar I’m going to buy (and sell). I search the obvious places like Reverb and Gbase and Ebay and Craigslist and I find lots of nice guitars-more often than not overpriced but some very nice guitars. I make offers, I ask questions, I do my homework in the hope that what I’m buying is actually what I’m getting. Sometimes, it can be pretty tricky like when Grandma is selling her long deceased husband’s guitar and has no idea what it is or when it was made. I try to be of assistance and I can almost always tell most of what I need to know from a few photos. But it’s always a crapshoot. I can’t really ask Grandma to break out the screwdrivers and check the PAF stickers for me or get me pot codes. So, you take your chances and try to minimize the risk any way you can. But I’m at a big advantage when it comes to 335’s and the like. I know what every year looks like pretty much at a glance. I can tell a real PAF from a fake at twenty paces and usually a repro tailpiece or bridge without having to turn it over. But what can you do if you haven’t seen enough 335’s to make an informed decision? Well, you can always ask me and, better yet,  you can get a return commitment so if something isn’t right, you can return it. But Grandma just wants to get paid and be done with it. I would never ask a seller for a return policy if it’s a non player selling a guitar he or she knows nothing about. But, every once in a while, I do something else and I’m always really hesitant to do it and I don’t do it that often. Sounds ominous, right? On occasion and not very often and only when the crime is so egregious, I can’t stand it…I am the internet guitar police. I admit it. Guilty with an explanation.

OK, so what does that mean? It means I see a guitar that’s listed as something it clearly isn’t and I feel compelled (that’s right compelled) to call out the seller and set him straight. Arrogant? I try not to be. Know it all? Well, you’re reading my stuff so I know more than you do (until you’ve read it all and then you can take over for me). It always feels like a really obnoxious thing to do but if I save some poor buyer from paying the price of a 62 for a 66 or buying a Chinese fake that’s breathlessly listed as “Gibson ES-345 Mono / Stop Tail 1967 Natural RARE!, then I think I’ve done some measurable good. The reason I decided to establish this blog in the first place was because so many listings were wrong about the year of the 335 they were selling. There are some very legitimate reasons for getting it wrong. They used the same serial numbers over and over from 65 to 69, sometimes as many as four times. And, even to the trained eye, a 65 doesn’t look all that different from a 67. I can point out about a dozen differences but they aren’t obvious to anyone who hasn’t studied them. So, I understand the difficulty and I generally don’t write to you to tell you that you have the year wrong, especially when the values aren’t all that different (like between a 66 and a 68). But if you tell me the PAFs on your Grandaddy’s 58 are original and I can see they are fakes, somebody is going to get hurt.

I’ve been called all kinds of names. “Dot neck snob” is a recent one. “Douchebag asshole” is another. “Know it all scumbag” and the like. On the other hand, I get as many as twenty emails a week asking me if the 335 being considered by you and not being sold by me is everything the seller says it is and is it a good deal? I answer every one of them. I want folks to get what they pay for. My offering up free advice is good business. Being nice and helpful is good business. Making sure a buyer has a good first experience with a 335 can often mean that same buyer will be coming to me later when it’s time to spend some very serious money on their next 335 (or the one after that). Happens all the time and I’m grateful for it. The other side of that is when I have to tell a 335 owner that the 62 he bought for $20,000 has fake PAFs and a repro tailpiece. “But the dealer told me it was 100% original…” or “but the seller said he bought it new and it was never worked on…” People forget. People lie. People get burned by the last seller and simply perpetuate the lies.

So there it is. I am the internet guitar police. Or I should say The Internet Guitar Police. Or at least for 335’s, 345’s and 355’s. I’ve mentioned before that around 90% of the guitars I get have an undisclosed issue that can’t be seen in photos. It’s usually something pretty minor and it’s usually not out of dishonesty-it’s out of a lack knowledge and of good information. That’s why I’m here. To help. Take down my badge number and know this… I’m watching.

This is the guitar that started me writing this blog. It was represented as a red 59. It had a cut center block (started in 61) and a few other oddities that caused me to go on my (now 8 year) crusade against misrepresented ES models.

Why is the guitar on the left worth twice what the one in the middle is worth? It’s a mystery but it’s the truth. An ES-345 no matter what year, is worth half of the same year 335. 355’s follow the same rule with the exception of the super rare stop tails.

I’ve mentioned many times that the vintage market for 335’s, 345’s and 355’s is “upside down” with the 335’s being worth around twice what the higher end 345’s and 355’s are worth. The good news for collectors and players who don’t have unlimited budgets is that it’s still “upside down”. When you consider that a collector grade (but not mint) 59 stop tail 335 will cost you between $35K and $40K, it is almost unbelievable that a 59 345 stop tail will cost you about half that. So, you’re saving $20,000 to endure the indignity of fancier bindings, fancier inlays and largely obsolete stereo/Varitone wiring. For around $200-$300, your can convert the electronics to 335 spec. The obvious next question is whether that hurts the vintage value or not. I can tell you from vast experience that it doesn’t as long as you keep all the original parts. You can be a purist and keep it stereo-it’s still a great guitar but if you’re buying a 345 because you don’t want to spend double for the same year 335, it’s a no brainer.

So, looking back at the 345 and 355 market for 2018, the news is mostly good. Like the 335, 59’s are still the benchmark especially the early “first rack” 345’s with the giant neck profile and unusual rout under the bridge pickup (short leg PAF-look it up). 59’s were up this year with first racks topping $20K and pushing $25K for excellent examples. Later ones (smaller neck, bigger rout) are approaching $20K. 59 355’s (Bigsby) were also really strong with big neck monos leading the way pushing into the $25K range. Lots of 59 355’s have smaller necks but the 59 year is still magic. The stereo 59’s are less than the monos but are also in the $20K range. Remember that stop tail 355’s are super rare and command a huge premium-double the price of a Bigsby. I only know of 12 of them.

What about the other years? 2017 was not a good year for 345’s. 60-64’s were pretty much stalled all year. 2018 was better but 61-64’s were still slow but showed a little appreciation. They are still a pretty tough sell. I’m not sure why but I can sell a half dozen 59’s in the time it takes me to sell one 61. You can get into a 61-64 345 or stereo 355 for $11K-14K-less if it has issues. That’s a bargain. The surprise, to me, of 2018 is the increase in popularity of 1960 ES-345’s. I see two reasons for this. The availability of the red finish is a big part of it. There are only 9 red 59’s and they are pricey, so if you want a long guard, long magnet PAF equipped red 345, the 60 is your only choice. I think the 60 345-red or sunburst-is currently the best bargain in this market. A collector grade early 60 will cost you in the $15K-$17K range. A little more if its mint (or has double whites or zebras which is relatively common in early 60). Yes, the neck profile is slimmer than an early 59 but an early 60 is identical to a late 59. So, are 59 bragging rights worth $5000 to you? Didn’t think so.  A later 60, which will have the very slim “blade” neck, will be even less. It will still have the long guard and the long magnet PAFs. The “transitional” 59/60 neck seems to slim down around the late Spring of 60. Look for A32xxx-A33xxx for the larger neck. No guarantees since the change in profile didn’t occur overnight but after A34000, they all seem to be very slim, like a 61.

I will make the further point that asking prices for 345’s and 355’s are all over the place. I’ve seen 61-64’s listed for close to $30K by sellers with big dreams and no sense of reality. It is human nature that most sellers think their guitar is worth way more than it will actually sell for and that hurts the market. On the other hand,  it helps sellers who ask fair prices; prices based on something more than wishes.

Lastly, let’s consider blondes since they were the big winner in the 335 market. All blonde 355’s were special orders so they are among the rarest of the rare. I’ve sold two in the past 10 years and I’ve seen only two others. Blonde 345’s were available from 1959 to 1960 but were made in very small numbers. Gibson made only 32 59’s and 18 60’s. After 60, they were special order only and I’ve seen one 61 and a few from the late 60s. I can’t tell you how blonde 345’s did in 2018 because none of them came on the market as far as I know.  My opinion is that they should be on a par with blonde 335’s. After all, there are four times as many blonde 335’s as there are blonde 345’s. I know a number of big collectors who own multiple blonde 335’s but have had no luck finding a blonde 345. My main player is a 59 blonde 345 (with some big issues) and I would have to say that a blonde 345 is my favorite guitar. Period.

What’s not to love? The 345 is a beautiful guitar that sounds as good as any guitar Gibson ever made. The blondes are big money but the sunburst and reds will cost you half what a 335 from the same year will cost. The middle one here is a finish called Argentine Grey. Rare but not popular. Got a black one? Lucky you. There are only 6 known.

The blondes were the big winners in 2018 rising double digits year over year from 2017 to 2018. These are all 59 and 60. OK, the one in front is a 345. 

Every year, I examine the past 12 months of sales and try to predict the future a little in the 335 market. Well, it seems that we’ve survived into 2019 and it’s time to assess 2018. From a non guitar viewpoint, it was a most unusual (strange, bizarre, scary) year. From the vintage vista, it was a little strange too.

The year started off in fine fashion-everything was selling and the prices on most models (335, 345, 355) were continuing to climb slowly. Of course, the overly optimistic sellers were still asking stupid money for their guitars (and that includes a lot of dealers) but the realistic sale prices were solid and improving. Then, when the Summer rolled around, the market simply died. It was slow from July until the end of October for most dealers. Part of it was simply the market getting ahead of itself-you know, the old standoff where the sellers ask too much and the buyers won’t pay it. I say that because my sales were fairly good until October (probably because my prices are generally lower than the cockeyed optimists). Another element may have been the political culture that has marked the USA since we elected the “stable genius” our president. Further explanation will not be offered. I’ll just say that people who are scared don’t buy guitars at the same rate as they do when the aren’t. October was really slow as was November but it picked up before Christmas and looks good going forward. We’ll see soon if that’s the case.

Dot necks were strong in 2017 and continued their strength in 2018 as long as it was a 59. 58’s, 60’s and 61’s still sold well but showed little, if any increase over the course of 2018. 59’s, if fairly priced sell really well and continued to climb in value, especially for no issue collector grade examples. Player grade 59’s also sold really well. That said, there are plenty of sellers and dealers who are creeping toward the $50K mark for a sunburst 59. There’s your market standoff. They simply aren’t there, at least not yet. Block necks had a great year after being a bit sluggish in the past few years. Especially red ones. In 2017, I found the $20K range to be the top for a stop tail 62-64 but this year that barrier has fallen and the best PAF examples are edging toward $25K but aren’t there yet. More like $22K.  Bigsbys did well with clean examples pushing to $15K and beyond.

I’ve noticed something this year that wasn’t so obvious in previous years. Folks are beginning to avoid guitars with the most common issues and spending a little extra to get all original examples. Most folks on a limited budget seemed to prefer no issue guitars with player wear over cleaner guitars with issues like changed tuners or extra holes. In 2018, a 335 with heavy wear was an easier sell than a 9/10 335 with Grovers (even if they were removed and correct Klusons were installed). More buyers are looking for guitars with original frets which, frankly, I don’t get-a good re-fret is often better than the original frets and playability and tone to me is still king. Guitars with holes from a changed tailpiece are getting pretty hefty discounts lately. I used to call them the $1000 holes because each one knocks about a grand off the price on a high end example. It’s still around $1000 per hole unless they are in the top-then its more. 335’s with stable headstock repairs are strong-that 40% discount is shrinking for good examples. Refinished 335’s are always a tough sell but if done well, can fetch 70% of the price if an original finish although 50-60% is more likely.

I think my big surprise this year was the blondes. There weren’t a lot to be found in 2018 and the prices of the best examples proved that there is still plenty of room for growth. I sold a very clean 59 (double white PAFs) for well into 6 figures and a near mint 60 (zebras) close behind it. With a total output of only 211 blonde 58-60 335’s, it appears that the collectors have most of them ‘cuz there ain’t many showing up on the market . Uncirculated blonde 58 and 59’s are all but gone, it seems. This was made more striking by the fact that the 59 stop tail I sold recently was gone in a few days. The 60 sold a week after I posted it. I don’t expect you will find a blonde stop tail 59 again for under $100K unless the market turns downward. The fact that a blonde 59 is still “only” half the price of a decent burst seems counter intuitive to me. I know which one I’d rather play.

After a sluggish 2016-2017, block necks, specifically red, PAF equipped stop tail 62’s were very strong and very popular. I sold a load of them this year.