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Vintage or Just Old?

Not all 70’s Gibsons are bad guitars. The 76-77 Explorers mostly got it right. The rest of the lines struggled. They simply aren’t nearly as good as the guitars from the 60’s. Lots of reasons and no excuses.

Is it the end of another year already? They seem to go faster every year. It seems like I was in my 50’s a minute ago and now, somehow, I’m in my 70’s. It’s also interesting that as years go by, the definition of “vintage” doesn’t change much. A guitar from the mid 90’s is 30 years old. That used to be a marker for vintage in the 90’s. But nobody is calling 90’s guitars that. Or 80’s guitars for that matter. If your definition of vintage is simply a certain age (which makes some sense), then it should change yearly or perhaps by the decade. Pretty much everybody agrees that guitars built in the 50’s and most of the 60’s are particularly good and few would dispute the term vintage for that era. But the build quality in the 70’s-with few exceptions-was generally pretty terrible. To most of us, the sale of Fender and Gibson to large corporations signaled the end of the “Golden Era”. But is that going to be the only era referred to as vintage? Let’s take a look at some guitars from the 70’s and 80’s that haven’t gotten much positive attention and a few that perhaps deserve a second look.

This one came and went pretty quickly. It is the ES-369. Only made from 1980-82. It was, essentially a 335 with a coil tap switch, “Dirty Fingers” pickups which were a pretty hot ceramic type and a TP6 tailpiece. Build quality was mediocre. They are generally pretty heavy (9 lbs+)

Gibson was sold to Norlin (beer, concrete) in 1969. Most call that the beginning of a long downhill slide that marked the clear end of an era. Gibson had some colossal flops but they also made some pretty good guitars in the 70’s and early 80’s (although I can only think of a few). The 76 Explorers can be wonderful players although the necks can be ridiculously large. There are folks who love the L6S. I’m not one of them. Then there’s the Sonex (actually not a 70’s but close enough). A bad idea poorly executed. It was, essentially, made of cardboard. Enough said. The ES line had some new additions and failures abound. It wasn’t that they were particularly bad designs (although there were a few) but that the build quality and materials were generally awful. You don’t hear too many folks looking for an ES-325 (a cheapo 335) or an ES-369, a nice try at an upscale 335 but apparently not nice enough. I kind of like the Dirty Fingers pickup-a nod, of sorts to DiMarzio who pretty much owned the pickup market in the 80’s. If we get to the early 80’s, we see the reissue of the 335 dot. Good guitars but not as good as the original. An 81-85 ES-335 commands a decent price-much more than other Gibson from the era. The Les Paul line in the 70’s struggled to find its footing after the very successful reintroduction of the LP Standard in 68. Perhaps the most striking thing about the Les Paul line during the period is that it went downhill every year throughout the 70’s. It’s as if someone was saying “how can we make these wonderful guitars cheaper and crappier every year?” The 68’s were close to the 50’s LP P90 Standard. The 69 went to the ugly big headstock and then to the three piece neck and then to the volute. By 70, the tenon was shorter and the body wasn’t one piece any more. By 71, the tenon had just about disappeared and the volute got bigger. That’s what happens when bean counters are in charge. Bean counters don’t know much about tone. They are “businessmen” who didn’t belong in the music business.

Ugly, heavy, poorly designed and poorly built, the RD was introduced in 1977. One of the ugliest guitars ever made. The RD Artist was particularly awful- the Moog electronics are horrible.

There are a lot more Gibsons that were introduced in the 70’s and 80’s and they really have been relegated to the dustbin of guitar history. Take the RD line. Please. Bad design and bad execution and, in the case of the RD Artist, bad electronics. It’s an ugly, ungainly slab of wood disguised as a guitar. I’m told there are folks who love them. By all means, enjoy. I’m surprised the line lasted as long as it did-especially the RD Artist. In fact, you can take all the models with the Moog electronics and burn them as far as I’m concerned. I bought an ES Artist a few years ago because I thought with all my knowledge, I could make it sound good. I could not. It was horrible. Then, there’s the Marauder, a solid body two or three pickup bolt on neck guitar that had very limited success and was discontinued after 6 years. The US-1 model was a Strat copy and was pretty awful (I had one in the 90’s). It was Gibson’s entry into the “Superstrat” era that, happily, went away after a few years.

Wow, Gibson makes a Stratocaster. I owned one. It was awful. Maybe if the pickups were better, it would have been ok. It was lifeless and dull. The US-1 lasted from 86 until 91.

Beyond Gibson, the 70’s and 80’s were not the best era for guitars. Gretsch’s are wonderful until 1962 and the downhill slog starts slowly-62-64 Gents can be pretty good (ask George). Rickenbackers never seem to change-I’ve played a few from the 70’s and 80’s that were pretty close to the earlier models. Electric Guilds from the 70’s fell out of favor while the Guild acoustics (especially 12 strings) saw real success. Martins from the 70’s can be very good but they can also be pretty bad, Changes in manufacturing and structure caused some intonation issues. A change from hide glue to a “modern” glue apparently made some sound dull. I’m told that in ’71, there were misplaced bridges that caused intonation issues. The rumor of a major fire wiping out all of the Brazilian rosewood is apparently an urban myth. The biggest factor at Martin and to an extent, all of the manufacturers is trying to build too many guitars too quickly resulting in QC issues across the board. I’ll leave it there…I’m really not qualified to assess these manufacturers since I don’t play that many. There are folks with much more knowledge than I have who can write the history of Fender in the post CBS era, so I’ll stay out that arena as well.

This is the Gibson Sonex 180. The high tech body material was called “Resonwood” which is essentially, sawdust and glue. Great idea. Weighed a ton. Lasted from 1980-1984. Not vintage. Thanks to Howie Statland at Rivington Guitars for the photo (“borrowed” off Reverb).

Does vintage have to mean good? I think so. An antique can be simply old, I suppose but vintage seems to suggest quality-especially a quality that no longer exists. If that is true, then guitars from the 70’s might never be considered vintage. Just old. As long as the guitars from a given era are inferior to the guitars of a previous era, then the term vintage might never apply. Just my opinion. I don’t make the rules.

3 Responses to “Vintage or Just Old?”

  1. RAB says:

    Charlie, great perspectives as always! Yes, old isn’t necessarily good. Take the 1970’s “3 bolt” neck Strats that were pretty universally hated by players when they first came out. A dumb idea for a supposedly more adjustable neck. Uh, except the necks were prone to move sideways when playing; no bueno. Now they are touted and marketed by many folks as vintage treasures. Not in my book!

  2. Lars Andreassen says:

    The Gibson RD you´re showing is not an Artist. It´s a Custom. Unfortunately one just like the one pictured was my first Gibson. Not that it matters much which RD it is, they were all absolute garbage. I also don´t really agree with you on the Explorers. I owned a 1976 limited edition, and that was a great guitar (I should have kept that one), but I´ve tried quite a few 1976-1977 Explorers that were not limited editions, and although they were quite decent, they were not great. But at least they were significantly better than the average Norlin crap.

  3. okguitars says:

    Thanks. Fixed it. I had a 77 Explorer (non Limited Edition) that was every bit as good as a 76 Limited that I had in stock at the same time. Part of the problem with 70’s Gibson across all models is inconsistent build quality. They were all over the place-especially in 76-80 in the ES line. They got better in 81 probably because they knew the quality issues were coming home to roost.

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