Negotiations 101
Everything is negotiable but there are a lot of factors that will limit how low a dealer will go on a given instrument or amp. This red 59 ES-335 is so rare that you can forget the negotiations.
Most sellers ask more than they expect to get for anything they are selling whether it’s their house, a car, a teapot or a guitar. It’s the way selling generally goes in the USA (it’s worse in some places). There are lots of negotiating tactics and most of them are pretty effective. If I’m asking $50,000, then offering me $40,000 gets the negotiation ball rolling. And we end up somewhere in between. If I’m asking $50,000 and you offer $2000, then you aren’t negotiating. You’re throwing out a lowball number with little expectation that you’ll get the guitar but maybe the seller is desperate. Newsflash… Nobody is that desperate. I get dozens of lowball offers every week and I usually just decline them and forget about them. And it doesn’t really matter if it’s a high end item or a low end one. Last week, I had an offer on an 18″ 1959 Lifton case that was listed for $900 (which is, incidentally, a really good deal if you need one). I got an offer for $289. I don’t get it it. I countered at $800 hoping that the lowball was an actual good faith negotiation but it wasn’t. He went away. I’ve had offers of $200 on a $75,000 guitar which is generally someone who can’t afford what I’m selling and thinks it’s funny to waste a sellers time. After all, the seller must have lots of money if he’s selling these expensive guitars and probably deserves to have his time wasted. This is turning into a rant which isn’t my intention.
It’s pretty simple. If it’s a Reverb listing that says I will accept offers, then you know I have room to negotiate. If it doesn’t say I accept offers, then don’t bother making one. I don’t usually add on a big premium in the interest of getting to a fair price. I simply offer my guitars at a fair price. If you want the guitar and it’s too much, then by all means, make me a fair offer. The worst I can do is decline. I have room on some guitars. On others, I’m up against break even-even I overpay sometimes when I really want something. Buying guitars as a dealer (and not a hobby dealer) is always a crapshoot. Everybody wants retail but dealers won’t pay retail if they want to stay in business. Whatever the spread is between what I pay and what I get (minus all the outrageous fees that consolidators want) is my take home pay. Oh, wait, I have to pay for insurance, packing materials, often shipping, storage and (this is a big one) credit card fees. So, when you see my ask, keep that in mind. You can always buy from an individual seller who might come in much lower but my experience is that the dealers are often more reasonable than the non dealers. And you usually get an approval period. That’s really important if you’re buying something that’s older than you are.
It seems that everyone believes that their guitar worth more if you’re selling it and the exact same guitar is worth way less when you’re buying it. It’s not true of course but it’s pretty well ingrained in the American psyche. The other fun negotiating tactic is telling me exactly what is wrong with my guitar (even though every issue is in the listing) and why it’s worth so much less than I’m asking. My feelings about this are “why would you want to buy it if it’s such a piece of crap? This happens at guitar shows a lot. I don’t do them as a dealer because this happened over and over again at the first and only show I participated in as OK Guitars back in 2012. But it’s a often more effective to negotiate in person especially a cash deal. Dealers want to move inventory (so they can buy more) and you know, if they are making the effort to do a show, that they are ready to deal. Lowball offers still won’t work.
There is a negotiating tactic that really isn’t negotiating and it drives me a little nuts. “What’s your best price” isn’t negotiating. I understanding trying to cut the BS of buying and selling but I think that tactic is best left out of the deal. I respond to it most of the time with a price that is below my ask and sometimes, when I really want to move something, I really give the buyer my “best” price. Maybe my response should be “how badly do you want it?” To me, it makes the assumption that I’m making a big profit and I should be making a small profit. It’s easy to find the value of most guitars by looking at the current listings remembering that most individual sellers are asking too much. Yes, and some dealers too. And even me sometimes although most of what I have stands up pretty well pricewise. Once you have a good idea what the guitar (or amp) is worth, you can negotiate by making a fair offer. I can respond by giving you a fair price. Deal?
Just because a guitar isn’t popular (or particularly rare), you can still usually negotiate a better price than the ask. Guitars like this sidejack Mosrite Ventures aren’t going to fly out the door so put on your haggling shoes and make yourself a great deal. Just don’t ask what my best price is.
I recently purchased a 2022 Gibson ’59 ES-335 Reissue VOS from a private seller. Not a vintage instrument but still very nice. He really wanted to move it so I got at an excellent price. Sometimes good deals happen!
I give you credit for even wanting to try to sell stuff in this market. How do you feel about guys that always want to trade you archtops ? . God help anybody out there who’s trying to sell a gretsch!!
Hey. Nothing wrong with a great archtop. To some they are the king of guitars. Good post, Charlie. It’s interesting to hear your perspective on negotiating.
A lot of people don’t seem to realize that a knowledgeable, honest dealer is providing an important service. A buyer knows exactly what he is getting. Most people haven’t spent years learning the often maddening idiosyncrasies of different guitars, the years, woods etc etc. A great dealer has spent a lifetime doing it. Let them make a few bucks, they have earned it.