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Look for “The Union Label”

Here's a Union Made Gibson Label from the ol' blue Trini

I remember a PSA (public service announcement) years ago done by the ILGW (International Ladies Garment Workers) to exhort the American public to “look for the union label” when buying clothing in order to try to keep the non union shops from driving down the price of clothing and putting union workers on the rolls of the unemployed. It didn’t work. Try to find any clothing made by American union workers these days. Well Gibson did something similar albeit on a much smaller scale. This is a good opportunity to look at Gibson’s labeling in order to use it as yet another tool to date them.  In the beginning (too Biblical)…In 1958 (that’s better) the label on an ES-335 was an Orange oval that gave you what it was-Guitar- the model-ES-335TD-and the serial number which began with the letter A

This what the 58 label looked like. Note that it doesn't say "Union Made" anywhere. It's hard to photograph the whole thing on a 335, so this is from an acoustic.

.It also stated that it was made by Gibson and that Gibson was in kalamazoo, Michigan and that it was guaranteed against faulty workmanship whatever that means.  As an aside, there was no serial number anywhere else on the guitar and if the sticker came unglued from the inside of the guitar, you were out of luck if you wanted to know its serial number. This made it pretty easy for thieves to disguise their stuff when it came time to visit the local fence. There is something called a FON (factory order number) which was stamped into the guitars but that’s a separate post which I’ll get to eventually. The orange oval stayed the same until some time in 1964. The serial number began to appear on the back of the headstock in 1961 and the letter A was dropped from it. In 64 (late 64, I think), Gibson added the words “Union Made” to the label. I don’t think they unionized in 64-I think that occurred earlier-they just put it on the label during that year. It’s a helpful tool in the difficult task of dating these guitars.  If the guitar has a stop tail and a Union Made label, it’s either a late 64 or very early 65.  The “Union Made” designation began to disappear (again, Gibson didn’t waste anything, so they continued to use that label until they were gone) in 1968. By 1969, the label looked pretty much like it did in 58. That also didn’t last long because Gibson was sold in 69 to Norlin (Beer, Concrete) and the label would change again to a white one with purple and black triangles. That label stayed with Gibson until the early 80’s when Norlin made its last ditch attempt to make a quality guitar and the White label appeared. It noted that Gibson now had a plant in Kalamazoo and another in Nashville.  When the Kalamazoo plant closed in 1984, the city disappeared from the label. Then, in 86, Gibson was sold again to its current owners and a different white label appeared. I’ll do a separate post about the modern Gibson labels which are kind of all over the place.

The Norlin (Beer, Concrete) label 1970-1979 or 80 (on 335s, anyway)

This one is typical of the late Norlin (Beer, Concrete) era. This one still shows that the Kalamazoo plant was in operation even though the guitar is an 85 and the plant closed in 84. Waste not...

35 Responses to “Look for “The Union Label””

  1. senator noam says:

    howdy!

    i’ve got an es-335td with a “union made” kalamazoo diamond sticker in the upper f-hole. the serial # on the back of the neck reads: “673449 made in u.s.a. 2”. i was wondering if you could help me figure out what year it was made + a ballpark figure of what she might be worth.

    thanx in advance!

  2. OK Guitars says:

    Sorry for the delayed response. My new spam filter is still being tweaked. That’ll likely be a 70’s because it has the Norlin “diamond” sticker. Send me a photo and I’ll give a value and an exact year.

  3. John says:

    I have a Gibson ES-325 serial number 184712 with a single “f” hole and it has the “union made” Norlin diamond label like the above picture. I have not been able to come up with dates or value information. If anyone has any ideas please contact me. Thanks.

  4. OK Guitars says:

    Hard to date 70’s ES’s because they reused all the serial numbers. ES-325s were only made from 72-79. Since it’s a six digit number, it is pre 75 which is when they switched to eight digit. That narrows it down a little. The 1xxxxx numbers were used every year from 1970- early 1975. So, we can narrow it down to 72, 73, 74 or early 75.

  5. John says:

    Thank you for the response. It’s nice to have an idea of what year it may be. Would you happen to know what years have the pearl crown inlay in the headstock and single pearl dots in frets, a raised black pick guard, a 3-way switch and two volume and tone knobs (one set per channel). The guitar is one of my father’s collection and I would like to get all the information that I can. Between us we have the ES-325, a 06 Les Paul Special, 82 Les Paul Custom (black and gold) and a multitude of Ibanez and Electra guitars and bass’s. Thanks again.

  6. OK Guitars says:

    Send a photo to me at okguitars@gmail.com. Dot markers were used (along with the “crown” inlay) from 1958-1962. Again from 1981-2012. Thats a lot of years.

  7. Randy H says:

    I have a 1980 Gibson es 335 dot black I purchased in 1985 it has no label is it fake? Did some of these come without labels or could it have fallen out?

    Thanks for your input

  8. okguitars says:

    I pretty sure it isn’t economically feasible to counterfeit an 80’s 335. I have questions though. First, Gibson didn’t make a dot neck in 1980. Could it be an 81? It is entirely possible that the label fell out but if you bought it in 85, then that’s pretty quick for the label to have fallen out, assuming it wasn’t there when you bought it. Feel free to send me a photo of the front, the headstock front and the headstock back.
    I’ll know if its real or not. I don’t need a label to identify a 335.

  9. Franco Pirone says:

    Hi, I bought my es 335 from a friend flying crew alitalia, who had bought it in New York a couple of years before. The serial number behind the headstock is 523169. Is it a 1968 ones? The problem is that it does not have the orange label inside.
    Is it possible that the label has never been there?
    Thank you
    Franco

  10. okguitars says:

    Yes, most likely a 68. Could be a late 67 but more likely early 68.

  11. Ken Cleave says:

    I have a Walnut ES 335/TD which I purchased from a Junk shop in the the late 70s Early 80s it had been well used but I fixed it up with a new bridge and set up [after removing the home made 70s belt Buckle padding gaffer taped to the back], it has the Norlin (Beer, Concrete) label
    but where the Gurantee should be written only the model name appears.
    on the Headstock in place of Serial number it has : Second, stamped into the wood so checking the exact year is impossible for me to do. It plays incredibly well and has the advantage of a pole switch for further sound.
    does this guitar have a value?

    I Know to replace it would cost me £3k to £4k.

  12. WillieG says:

    771887 ser# KalamazooWhat year is itThx

  13. okguitars says:

    One photo of the back of the headstock doesn’t give me much to go on. I would say 70 or 71. The front of the headstock would tell me more.
    70’s are difficult because they used the same serial numbers over and over (and over) again.

  14. okguitars says:

    I’m sure it has value if it’s playable. Second usually refers to a minor finish issue. Walnut finish started in 68 but the Norlin label started in 1970, so it has to be 70 or later. A photo or two would help. I assume that by pole switch, you mean a phase switch which places it 76 or later. I don’t see enough 70’s 335’s to be as certain of what happened when as I am about 50’s and 60’s.

  15. Ken cleave says:

    in resolve of my original question. I have since discovered that the walnut ES 335\TD that I have is 1978.

  16. Barenik says:

    I have a beautiful Gibson ES-335 TD walnut but without any label in the internal side. I’d like to buy a repro or an original one but I can’t find an “union made” Norlin diamond label like the above picture. If anyone has any suggestion please contact me. Thanks!

  17. Robert Francis says:

    I have what i believe to be a 1969 Gibson ES 335, It has a norlin label and its a beautiful guitar. The original tuners were replaced with grovers by my grandfather (i have the originals in the case) and he claims he bought the instrument sometime after vietnam (for him) so likely 69-70? it plays great. Whats your guess? There is a funny thing about it though, the label inside says it is a es 325 but it clearly is not. Must have been a mistake at the factory

  18. okguitars says:

    No Norlin labels until 1970, so it isn’t a 69. They made mistakes on the labels.

  19. David G says:

    Thanks for all this great info! I think I have a 1970 335 of course there are oddities. It has a 3 piece neck with volute but it has an orange label. Also, one of the pots was bad and upon inspecting the original pot it has a date code of January 1971. So, label means 69ish, neck means 70 or 71 and pot says 71. Maybe they were still using up some orange labels in late 70? I read that pots were sometimes post dated by the manufacturer since they would sit in stock for so long.

  20. okguitars says:

    Here’s my take. The labels supposedly were discontinued in 1970, not 69. They didn’t run out-there were a lot of them that flooded the secondary market years later. You can still find orange labels… most of which are repro. The build date, assembly date and the ship date and the purchase date can be pretty far apart. The build probably is 70. Assembly has to be 71 (unless the harness was replaced later with a set of 71 pots which is not impossible). If the harness is original, then it had to have shipped in 71 (or later). I’d still call it a 71, although I could easily argue that it’s really a 70. Does the orange label outweigh the 71 pots? I think not-Gibson could not have had 71 pots in 1970. Until such time as a 70 is much more valuable than a 71, it doesn’t really matter what you call it.

  21. Rocco says:

    I have a 1974 es 335. But on the inside it has a es 345 td sicker. Could this just be a mix up or is it fake.

  22. Rocco says:

    Here’s the sticker. There is no info anywhere about miss matched stickers

  23. okguitars says:

    It’s unusual but not unheard of. I had a 355 with a 335 sticker. During the 70’s it was more common than in the 60’s. That’s a 70’s label.

  24. okguitars says:

    Looks real. I don’t think anybody is faking 70’s 335’s. If you are going to the huge effort of faking what is perhaps the most difficult to build collectible guitar, you aren’t going to make a Norlin. You are going to make a dot neck.

  25. Lee says:

    I have a 1981 Gibson ES-335 Pro (the one that was only made from 79 – 81, and came with Gibson Dirty Fingers pickups, has maple neck and not mahogany). It doesn’t have a sticker on the inside!! The serial number dates it correctly and says it was made in Nashville. Did they not put stickers in some guitars by the early 80’s? Thanks!

  26. okguitars says:

    Those guitars had stickers but it may have fallen out. They were cutting a lot of corners during that period and they probably used cheaper glue than previously
    or they simply never put one on. It shouldn’t affect the value.

  27. Parentevan says:

    Hi folks. I’m looking at buying a ’70 ES-175D and everything check out (correct tuners/knobs, tailpiece etc, still need to verify pots) but the label inside looks like it bled and is glossy. Can someone provide some insight on this? Is this the sign of overspray from a refinish? A fake? Headstock has a weak/mushy stamping on mahogany of 902704 Made in USA. Any help appreciated.

  28. okguitars says:

    It’s a Norlin. You can expect sloppy work. The gloss on the label suggests overspray to me. On the other hand it may have been coming off and somebody decided to stabilize it with a shot of lacquer or poly. Black light might help. The weak stamp is not unusual. Nobody would take the time and effort to fake a Norlin 175. It’s just as easy/hard to fake a 59, so why fake a 70?

  29. Bob Mayben says:

    Label question: If you are holding a 335 in front of you, (a right handed playing instrument) with the controls on the lower section, is the label inverted or correct to read?

  30. okguitars says:

    Beats me. I’ve seen fewer modern 335’s than you have. If it was a vintage one, the letters will be right side up if the guitar is facing you with the controls on top.

  31. Jerry Meeuwse says:

    My mom worked at Gibson from 1960 until 1984 when they closed the Kalamazoo plant. It’s kind of funny because the union that represented the workers was
    The United Steelworkers union. This originated from when they used to make their own guitar strings. The string department originally was located on factory street while the rest of Gibson was located at 225 Parsons street.

  32. Dan says:

    Hi, emailed you some pics of my 335 TDC, wondering about how to date it. It has the orange label, but nothing about “union”. No volute, no stamp “Made in USA” I was told it was a 1967, but that has been questioned. Snr is 6 digits.
    Best!
    /Dan

  33. okguitars says:

    Added stop tail. Looks like a 67 to me.
    Charlie

  34. Mantadog says:

    Hi guys
    I have a 335
    1……blocks
    2……Orange oval (union made)
    3…..vibrola
    4…..bolts still in for back tail
    5…..short neck
    See photos
    What’s an estimate year??

  35. okguitars says:

    Only one photo loaded. Can’t tell from it. 65 or later though.

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